Hey Guys,
Here is the second half of the interview I did with John Meadows (you can read part 1
HERE).
Enjoy!
Mike: No, we shouldn’t use them. I agree
completely with that. I think an amount of people make a strong argument out of
genetic outliners. They shouldn’t be used for plans for everybody else. Coming
back, obviously to making sure that you train intensely. I know that you are a
big component of intra workout nutrition and obviously fueling workouts
correctly. You have said previously that you think that’s one of the biggest
discoveries you made in nutrition recently, especially when it comes to
recovery is intra workout nutrition. I personally use it with all my athletes.
We are looking now at things like the Di and Tripeptides now becoming available
in the UK where people were trying to get hydrolyzed casein and things like
that from all different types of different places and combine them to make
their own products. People were having digestive issues and it was terrible. If
you could give us a quick overview on your thoughts of correct workout
supplementation and training supplementation?
John: Let me just start by saying this.
I believe your nutrition in this respect should match your training. If I’ve
got a body builder, weight lifting is weight training, the way we do it is very
catabolic in nature. I’m going to be a little more aggressive with my intra
workout nutrition with somebody who is really pounding the weights. If I’ve got
somebody that is maybe grappling and by the way, I don’t do a lot of that, I
don’t want to pretend I’m somebody that I’m not but if I were to have somebody
that’s doing a lot of grappling, I probably wouldn’t be as aggressive but it
would still be important though because these guys are burning a lot of
calories. There is a lot of stress. The longer and harder they can work out,
the better athletes they are going to become.
My experience is that
these nutrients allow that to happen. The carbohydrates that I love, really
there are two of them. Vitargo has been around for a long time. I think that’s
a really good one. It’s very low osmolality, which just means that the gastric
emptying rate is very high. It clears the stomach very quickly. It doesn’t
cause stomach upset. The other one that is my personal favorite is branch
cyclic dextrins,also very low osmolality. I’ve never seen anybody have a
stomach issue with it. I should clarify. The few people that I know that have
stomach issues with these products didn’t use enough water in the drink. You
can’t be too concentrated.
Once we fixed the amount
of water they were using, they were fine. For body builders, those things are
also going to drive insulin and insulin response while you train is really good
for a body builder because it’s going to help. Insulin is in your blood and
your insulin receptors on your cell membrane are going to say, “Okay, cool.
I’ve got some insulin.” The insulin receptor, think of it like a key hole and
then the insulin comes along and it’s the key. It inserts into the key hole and
it opens up the cell. Think of it like a trap door opens. Then you have these
carrier proteins, glucose transporters to go to the surface of the cell where
this trap door is and the glucose jumps on board and goes back into the cell.
Long story short, you
are getting glucose in that cell. You are getting all these nutrients that are
in your blood into your cells, into your muscle cells and the interesting
thing, this is also true for your fat cells but the cool thing about training when
you are training really hard, you are trashing your muscle cells. The
preferentially suck in glucose. You have an opportunity to suck in a lot of
glucose in your muscle cell, whereas at another time during the day, your fat
cells are going to just say, “Hey, I want some of this too.” It’s not as
optimal.
In terms of protein, the
biggest mistake I see people make is they don’t use the right protein. Instead
of using di and tripeptide, which to be clear to all of your folks listening,
those are just proteins that are pretty much digested. They are broken down to
their constituent di and tripeptide. They are broken down to their basic form
and your body doesn’t need to digest it. The last thing you want when you are
training is your digestive system to have to digest a lot of food while you are
working out. That’s not a good thing. People, I tell them we’ve got to be very
specific with the nutrients or this not only will not work, it will make you
feel worse. We need to have the right stuff in to get the effect that we are
talking about here. Di and tripeptide are pretty much digested. If you get the
right kind and not a cheap version, you are going to have probably over 90% of
the protein is going to be digested already, so your body sucks it up, uses it,
and makes it in your muscle cells. It drives your free amino acid levels and
that in combination with the carbohydrates driving insulin produces this
incredible recovery. Insulin is your best friend during training. It will help
you manange muscle protein breakdown. Use it to your advantage.
You’ve always got this
battle going on during the day with muscle protein synthesis and muscle protein
breakdown. My contention is this. When you train really, really hard, more so
with weights, you create a lot of muscle protein breakdown and from what I have
seen, from what I have observed anecdotally with hundreds upon hundreds of
people is that if you can control the muscle protein breakdown right there as
it is happening, and by the way, this is going to give you more energy too.
Hey, that’s great. That’s the way to go, in my opinion. I don’t think that this
timing is meant for everybody. I don’t think most people even train hard
enough.
I saw somebody the other
day who said, “You have to earn your intra workout nutrition.” I like
that.
I thought that was good
because that’s true. Most of the people, when I go to the gym now are sitting
on benches, they are texting or they are talking on their phones. Let’s be
honest here, is an intra workout going to help those guys? No. They are not even training hard enough to
create this environment that we are talking about. This isn’t for everybody.
This is for athletes that train really, really hard and I would say the more
the end of the spectrum becomes training with weight, the more this has been
official but I still think it is very beneficial for people like MMA fighters
because they are breaking their bodies down. It may not be like a weight lifter
breaking their bodies down but they are training hard.
What I would do is I
would do a smaller version of what I would do with a high-level body builder
but the concepts still pretty much apply. I think it’s important to note that
too. It’s not for everybody but when you get these guys that are the top of
their sport or maybe they think they are at their genetic limit. This is a way
to help you get more; get more out of your body. That’s how I think about it.
Mike: Yes, it is something I have
observed with people I have worked with to increase muscle mass, obviously is
what body builders are after because we have to work within weight class
limits, well I know body builders do obviously as well but for the recovery aspect.
As far as reducing soreness goes, it’s brilliant and people just love it. They
don’t feel as though they are running themselves down all the time. It is
brilliant. It's creating that environment
for people get the most of it. The anabolic environment for example, and you
are well known for the type training that you do, mountain dog style training.
It’s very high intensity type training.
I’ve observed
a lot of your clients go to training seven days a week, like yourself going into
a competition. That recovery must be a massive part of the nutrition you do
with you clients. Do you put that down to the correct nutrition or do you use
extra techniques to help with that recovery as well?
John: Yeah, I should put some context
around that too. I don’t train; I don’t have anybody train seven days a week
year round.
A lot of people think
that. I’m like, “No, no that’s not true.” What is true is that I like for
people leading up to an event to be at their physical peak, to be training as
hard as they can, getting the best results that they can but the reality is, we
are not terminators. We are not machines and we can only handle that level of
stress for so long. A large part of the off-season, people are only training
four to five days a week. Then they will go to five to six days a week. There
is a process that I have of people after their contest is over, I bring them
back to four days a week. I lower their intensity levels. I let their body
rejuvenate and recuperate and also mentally they are pretty drained. Just
mentally I let them get back to a good place, you know?
Then as the months go
by, I just gradually build their intensity up. Once I build the intensity up in
each session, then I add frequency. I start the extra frequency at a lower
intensity. Then I build that up. There is a process that is going on here with
what I’m doing with people. There are four days that becomes higher intensity
four days, which becomes five days, which becomes higher intensity five days,
which becomes six days. It’s very well thought out. I’m not just trying to kill
people. That’s not my goal. My goal is for people to get better and there is a
very structured way that I do this. Now, everybody is different. Some people
can only tolerate at their peak six days a week. Most people can tolerate at
least six though if you get this right.
There is some variation
with people but there is also a general pattern of if you do this right, you
can increase people’s workloads. The people who I really can’t get their
workload up that much, I hate to say it but probably genetically, they just
don’t have it. People talk about genetics in terms of physical characteristics.
“His clavicles are too narrow or this or that.” I think of genetic limitation a
little differently. I think about your ability to tolerate stress. I have heard
people say they do a leg workout and they can’t recover for two weeks. Mentally
they are drained for two weeks. When I hear that, I think this person
genetically just might not have it. They are never going to be able to tolerate
a lot of stress. That tells me they are probably not going to go to a real high
level in our sport. That’s just reality. That’s just what I see.
Then I get people that
are just the opposite. I get these guys that are freaking animals and I’m
holding them back. I’m like, “No, hold on. Let’s just do five days first” and
“No, I want to go seven.” They are animals. Those are the guys that as long as
we can control it and do this systematically, they are going to improve at a
really, really rapid rate. This whole genetics thing, a lot of it to me is just
how much stress you can tolerate. Some people just can’t take it to another
level during an actual training session. They feel a little pain and they stop.
They can’t handle it. Those guys probably aren’t going to make it to a real
high level. Again, going back to what we were talking about earlier, of course
you have genetic freaks. Some of the top guys in Mr. Olympia, if you saw them
train you would probably laugh because their training is pretty soft. They are genetic
freaks and they can literally mow the yard and their legs are going to be 32
inches.
Anyway, I build a volume
up over time. We peak and this becomes much more complicated when people are
competing multiple times during the year but there is always going to be a
systematic way to do this. There is always going to be a thought process on how
to peak for an event and then how to work your way down.
Mike: Absolutely and a quick last thing.
I realize I am taking quite a bit of your time. The last thing I want to talk
about is competing frequency. I know body builders compete a few times a year,
grapplers and fighters, especially guys looking to climb the rankings, some of
them compete once a month or twice a month, which I think is far too much. I
still think you should have an off season as it were where you work on weaknesses
etc. How often would you see this training for body builders, would you say
competing four times a year is too much? Five times a year is too much or just
how the individual handles it or do you have guidelines, etc?
John: In body building, you have to
look at where the person is in the sport. If they are an elite national level
competitor, for example, I’ve got a guy who just missed his pro card by one
place. His name is Matt Burzacott. He just did the nationals. He missed his pro
card by one place. He is right there. For him to take a year off or two years
off doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. We’re going to be aggressive. He is
right there at that level. The next pro qualifier coming up, he will do it. If
he doesn’t win that one, there is another one in three months and he will do
that one.
Take that example, that’s one end of
spectrum and then you’ve got another end of the spectrum. You’ve got somebody
who competes and they’ve got really a lot of weaknesses. They are just trying
to win a local level contest but maybe they have body parts that are really far
behind and maybe they are just really outmuscled. Those are the guys to be
competitive, they are going to need to back off the competitions and they are
going to have to put more work into their off season and they are going to have
to build their bodies more. It’s very hard to grow when you are going show to
show to show very quickly. It’s almost impossible to grow. The only way to do
it is through creativity with chemistry.
I’m just being honest
there. For people that need to improve a lot to be even competitive, I’m going
to hold those guys back and I’m going to say, “Let’s take our time.” Let’s have
a good off season. Let’s gain some real good muscle mass but then again the
other end of the spectrum somebody may be right there at that elite level, so
maybe they could use an extra half inch here or an inch there but those guys,
I’m not going to have. They’ve got a window of opportunity. They are right
there, so I’m not going to hold them back. I’m not going to say, “Don’t compete
for a year. Don’t compete for two years.” We’re going to keep plugging away and
we are going to get that pro card. That’s the different philosophies. It just
depends on where somebody is at in their development, where they are at on the
competition side of things.
It’s really hard for
your guys, your MMA guys because I talk about in terms of six months or a year;
you’ve got to do that in terms of a month or four to eight weeks.
John: They need a break.
Mike: Yeah.
John: Your
programming actually requires a lot more thought than mine.
Mike: Again, it’s all individual. You
mentioned in the beginning how people balloon up in weight afterwards. Sometimes
you get fighters that do the exact same thing as soon as the fight is done or
sometimes if they haven’t got the right people around them and they are
slamming fast food and the weight balloons right up and they’ve got such a hard
time to bring it down again. It just becomes a vicious cycle. We find that the
people are looking to become pros and really take being a pro seriously, people
won’t let themselves go over a certain amount. They make their lives a bit
easier on themselves. It’s generally the least professional people come to me
going, “I’ve got 50 pounds to lose. I’ve got eight weeks to lose the weight.
Can you do it?”
Well, I can
chop a leg off.
It all depends on the person really. It
is the same kind of thing going up the pro ranks, they fight less but the
longer camps, the training for specific things, like with bodybuilders thinking about pro qualifiers. They have shows in mind that they want to hit and do well on rather than, “I just
want to get competing experience”, which I imagine is a similar kind of thing.
John: Yeah, absolutely.
Mike: The last thing I want to talk
about, I’m trying not to take too much of your time because I know how busy you
are. The really important stuff is who is the greatest superhero of all time?
John: I like the cosmic dudes. I like
Galactus.
Mike: Really? I’m really surprised by
that. I thought you would be a Captain America guy.
John: No, I like cosmic dudes. I like
Thanos I like Galactus. I like the Silver Surfer. I think the two best stories
of all time; I think the Infinity Gauntlet with Thanos is probably my favorite
story of all time.
Mike: Yeah.
John: If you have just seen the recent
Thor movie …
Mike: Yeah, the Avengers. It’s good to
change that. It’s not gems, its stones now. I don’t know how they are going to
fit the gauntlet in with it. Obviously the gem is attached to gauntlet.
John: Right. That will be interesting.
For years I’ve been saying, “Make a movie with Thanos. That would be awesome.”
Then my other favorite story of all time was when Galactus came to Earth. They
did a fantastic Four movie about it but it was absolutely horrible.
Mike: It was terrible, wasn’t it?
John: Horrible. They could have at
least spent a couple of minutes talking about how the Silver Surfer became the
Silver Surfer, first of all.
Mike: Yeah, you just forgot about that
bit, didn’t they?
John: Yeah, they didn’t get into that
at all. It would have only taken a five-minute flashback, right? It could have
been great and then Galactus was a cloud. I’m like, “Come on.” It was horrible.
Mike: Did you read, I think next year,
is it next year or the year after it comes out?
John: I hope it’s a lot better. I heard
they were but I don’t know. You hear all these rumors about what they are doing
and not doing.
Mike: Yeah.
John: The Thor movies have been pretty
good. I like those.
Mike: Yeah.
John: The new Spiderman looks pretty
good.
Mike: It looks really good to me. It’s
my favorite character, Spiderman.
John: Did you see the new preview with
Electro?
Mike: Yeah, yeah and Rhino as well but
it’s like a massive electric shoe, isn’t it that Rhino has got? That looks
really good. I think Harry Osborne is walking through the Osborne Mansion and
then there are the tentacles in the back in the case. It looks really good. I’m
glad they didn’t mess it up. They have done it really well. I know it’s not done
by Marvel, so I was a bit worried.
John: Yeah, so there you go.
Mike: John anything new going on with your website?
John: Yes definitely! I am phreaking stoked about it actually. We sent out surveys asking people who had left why they did and what we could do to improve the site.
I am going to give you the short version of this. We sent out questionnaires asking people who left the site what we could do better? This painted a VERY clear picture. Here is what they said.
1) Beginner/intermediate content is needed (teach them how to build their own diet)
2) Content delivered more frequently instead of monthly
3) More "case studies" for non competitors/normal people to see exactly how we diet them to reach their goals
4) A search function (I know, duh)
5) More female in the trenches articles
6) Merge the two websites into one for navigation purposes
So when consulting with the company we work with
Blue Laser Design Inc. we eventually decided to do a complete overhaul. This will address all 6 issues and much more.
We are looking at an early May delivery, but much of the issues above (all except #4,6) will be addressed soon, like as in a few days soon!
I have already added the beginner (will be called novice) piece and am building up content now in the existing website.
We have also started updating content weekly as well. Just those two things have really gave memberships a boost!
Mike: Do you really take the
Biotest products you promote? Many guys don't in this industry.
Well I don't take ALL of their stuff, that would be a lot of pills and powder. I do take their intra mix and swear by it, as do many of my clients.
It's called Plazma. it is currently my favorite supplement I have ever taken. I say currently because who knows what they will come up with next. I also take
Mag 10 on and off throughout the day (di and tri peptides). I am enjoying a new product they have out now called
phosphatidic acid. These are my key supps. I do also take
their fish oil now that I think about it. I can't imagine not taking the Plazma. It's unbelievable.
Mike: I would like to say thanks very
much for your time, John. It is really appreciated that you took the time.
John: You’re welcome, you’re welcome.
It was my pleasure, my pleasure. I’m happy to be on the show.
Stay tuned for more interviews coming soon
Stay Healthy,
Mike
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